Episode 36 – And Then There Were Three
- Length: 31:57
- Size: 30.1 MB
- File: episode36.mp3
- Enhanced: episode36.m4a
- Transcript: episode36.pdf
- Torrent: episode36.torrent
With an almost news-free gap between the Belgian and Japanese races, we take the opportunity to grill Keith Collantine about all manner of F1 topics, including:
- FIA transparency
- Where is Alonso headed?
- Gearbox issues of the future
Talking Point: Customer cars – generally good or very, very bad? Will the constructor’s championship turn into the team championship? Are Super Aguri/Spyker any better than Prodrive for at least making the effort on their car? Let us know your thoughts, either by commenting on this post, emailing christine [@] sidepodcast.com, or by leaving us a voicemail on 0121 28 87225. We’ll discuss your opinions on the next show.
September 24th, 2007 at 17:13 #1 - Kris said:
FT:
This is going to be quite a long reply, to cover all the points that you’ve made.
For FIA transparency, Im all for it, but have no particular beef with Mosley himself. I’d like to have a bit more confidence in their impartiality, but they have a problem:
If they use retired legal professionals, as would offer the greatest degree of impartiality, the FIA judiciary would not be able to understand what on earth teams were talking about. Talk of flexible floors, turning vanes, bargeboards etc would wash straight over them without some form of expert assistance (charlie?) – this would also make things SLOW.
Instead, they use people with better understanding of motorsport, but who are less disconnected: they trade perceived impartiality for greater understanding and efficiency, – and I believe they are right to do so.
If Maclaren have a case, with similar evidence against Renault, I expect that the FIA will be equally harsh – if only because they’ve backed themselves into a corner rather than it being the right thing to do
As for the Alonso bashing: yes, he was in it up to his eyeballs. However, do you really believe that him and de la Rosa would be able to decide amongst themselves what gets tested in the simulator/at tests without ANYONE at maclaren either being involved, or knowing.
Either way, the FIA had one maclaren employee receiving the info, 2 employees (*cough* agents) at least attempting (…and that assumes we believe maclaren that it wasnt used) to use the information, and a further employee who knew coughlan had something he shouldn’t, and decided to turn a blind eye. I honestly can’t see how Maclaren’s previous “one bad apple” defence can even begin to hold up under this evidence, and thats before we get to the issue of whether we believe thats the full extent of it.
In my opinion, the only reason both drivers didn’t lose points was the FIA being fearful of a press backlash when innocent Lewis has his championship screwed by the evil Alonso. – As for punishing Alonso to a greater degree than Hamilton, that would seem sensible provided we are sure that we’ve seen the full extent of the problem at maclaren, and that it really was just de la Rosa and Alonso, and not more widespread (not necessarily extending to Hamilton)
Ron Dennis has every right to persue every single employee involved in this, – I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, if he does, will more evidence come to light?
I severely doubt that the FIA are too fond of Alonso at the moment, he was clearly involved with the shady dealings at Maclaren, and hasn’t yet got himself to the stage where he’s the baddy who everyone loves to “boo” – and then begrudgingly applaud when he trounces the opposition. (no prizes for guessing who that referrs to)
If the Italian police release the contents of those SMS messages, I think the first thing we’d all notice was that the 200+ messages sent was something misleading. The two were friends, who happened to be staying in the same foreign country together during GP events, – some of course are going to be innocent, arranging dinner, wondering how the flight was etc.
If theres information going from maclaren to ferrari, then yes they should be hauled in front of the FIA – but dont forget that evidence of one employee having it wasn’t enough for them to punish Maclaren, so it wouldn’t for Ferrari either. They’d need some evidence of use/attempted use before imposing any sort of severe punishment.
As for the “all getting ready to move to Honda theory” – then why would coughlan feed info to de la Rosa and (by proxy) Alonso? I suspect it was on the long-term radar, but seeing as there’s no evidence they had passed any information over to Honda, and plenty that they had to Maclaren: its clear where the FIA should be looking.
As for Maclaren being the constructors champions this year, I’d like to wait until the last race before forming an opinion on that. If ferrari would’ve overhauled them on points anyway, they would naturally be champions. If not, in my head I’ll think of it as a (somewhat tainted) maclaren win.
The FIA redaction blunder is absolutely unbelievable. However, the other teams already had the information because they had people in the room, the information was already “out” and as such couldnt have been obtained illegitimately.
Whether the FIA should do something to recompense both Maclaren (coughlan’s salary, their braking valve, their weight distribution philosophy) and Ferrari (the CO2 *chortle* the spring based rear brakes and the differences in weight distro) is interesting. If they do, however, I’d like to see what the press made of it: – the FIA helping ferrari even more? The FIA backing down and softening Maclaren’s blow by the back door?
I think that leaves me just about ready to actually listen to the podcast now!
September 24th, 2007 at 21:51 #2 - Rich said:
I think the interview addition with F1 Fanatic’s Keith Collantine went very well. Thank you for your latest podcast.
I would like to pick up on McLaren not contesting their fine and points deduction, they had little to gain and lot more to lose since the FIA are not impartial, they are hardly likely to have “won” either and it is inevitable that it will “distract” in their preparation for the last three events and the development of next year’s car. Ultimately if they are to support their drivers in securing the World Drivers Championship they will need to focus especially following a somewhat disappointing performance at Spa (if you are a McLaren fan). McLaren had very little defence once their drivers admitted to such confidential knowledge of their opposition and that is what did the damage.
Picking up on FIA and their inadvertent intention to be a little too “transparent” with regard to their release of the hearings. I suspect neither McLaren nor Ferrari would wish to complain or hear any more of this, since that would broadcast their sensitive information even further.
I also found the only link to this information other that Keith’s site was the computer security company. It was an unbelievable blunder – surely some poor office worker will be looking for new employment, but it was FIA’s management for rushing it too much that is really to blame!
I find it rather suspicious and convenient that rumours are already circulating about Alonso driving for the “Great Red Cars”. This certainly adds to the conspiracy theory that Alonso has been working on his “out” from McLaren for some time, but in the longer term what does de la Rosa gain? Whatever, the circumstance, few companies will wish to employ an ageing test driver with a CV that reflect his very precise co-operation with FIA that cost his employers $100 million and a championship.
For Alonso to stay at McLaren would be disastrous. I would like to quote Jacky Ickx*
“For that a driver can give the full measure of his talent, he must be surrounded by people who appreciate him and who rely on him.”
I do not think that Alonso’s driving has been nearly as impressive this year as his two previous years, possibly like Raikkonen he struggled with adjusting to the Bridgestones, but as Jacky Ickyx said it is indeed difficult to give your full potential if you are in team that is hostile to your efforts. Obviously Uncle Ron is going to want to keep Alonso for no other reason but to hopefully get offers by the opposition to buy out Alonso’s contract and thus offset the financial problems that the fine must have caused.
While Norbert Haug has been publically very supportive, you can bet that deep in Mercedes corporate head quarters they would be fuming. I suspect Mercedes will start to take greater controlling interests of McLaren and Ron’s resignation would be part of the package. I believe it is time for Ron to retire before he is given the boot by the big Teutonic bosses.
While Ron is always at pains to say how he and McLaren always play fair and are loyal to their staff (including “agents”), some of their past decisions do question this asertion, like the decision to employ Raikkonen over Heidfeld at the end of 2001, when Heidfeld had a long association with Mercedes and had been their test driver and had driven better during that season.
The reality is McLaren is still too image conscious and this holds for their selection of drivers and even their flashy launches like this year and their splashy motorhome which they no have to erect next to Red Bull/Toro Rosso City next year.
The FIA censure will impact McLaren more than just about any other team. McLaren will almost certainly lose a lot of independence in dealing with their partners and sponsors. They now need to stand by both drivers and ensure at least Hamilton is retained for next year.
Who McLaren will employ to replace Alonso is open debate, being a supporter of Heidfeld, I would obviously like to see him in a car than can actually win a Grand Prix (no offence to the BMW Sauber they have done a great job this year). I think there are several drivers who given the current McLaren equipment would be instant stars (Kubica, Vettel, Liuzzi but their best choice is Rosberg). From a corporate aspect I suspect Rosberg would be the preferred choice since he is a brilliant driver (in team mate comparisons no other driver is more convincingly faster), good at interviews and has the good looks that go with McLaren’s image consciousness.
If McLaren could relieve Williams of both their drivers Alex Wurz would be a fantastic replacement to retire agent “de la Pink”. Of course what poor “Williams” would do? They could do a lot worse than hiring Liuzzi to partner Team India – I know other viewers will snigger here – but given the right team environment and equipment I genuinely think Liuzzi could shine (he is a former Karting World Champion and he has even beaten Schumacher Senior on the kart track and his record of winning 7 out the 10 races to become F3000 World Champion has not been bettered).
Who is going to drive for the other two McLarens (sorry I mean the Pro somethings)? Hopefully Gary Paffett will get a chance to compete during 2008 and for Ron and McLaren will show how loyalty is repaid.
While I feel sorry for Ron, I have to say I actually trust both Frank Williams and Mario Thiessen to be rather more loyal and fair to their drivers and teams. If Alonso does find a seat in the Great Red Car, I for one, will have found how all the events this year all fitted together like a big jigsaw puzzle a bit too convenient, unless it was carefully orchestrated .
FIA’s evidence against McLaren was based on virtually no “hard” evidence (like inspection of the car), and really only on the verbal evidence of the existence of “untraceable” email communications by two of their drivers, one of whom told Ron through his manager there was not truth in having incriminating evidence that he could supply FIA, despite earlier claiming he had some in attempting to get preferential treatment in the team. In my book that makes you at the very least a liar and that is when Ron should have had words with Alonso and possibly been brave enough to fire him!
Since I think Ferrari cheat more than any other team Alonso and his manager both being accomplished liars should settle in well and hopefully when Raikkonen demolishes him he won’t even have the excuse that he did not “know” the car since he has been familiar with its trade secrets for most of 2007! I once thought Alonso to be an exceptional talent, but I think my judgment was based on not realizing how long Fisichella’s sell by date had expired which has become very evident in 2008. Of course if Alonso does go to Ferrari, Massa will probably end up at Toyota (not by personal choice) and hopefully Trulli will put him in his place. It will be interesting to see his career plummet (his success is really dependent on driving the best equipment), I even feel ever so slightly sorry for him – but you cannot expect loyalty to be repaid by the Great Red Car team can you, even if you did drive well throughout the season?
If Hamilton does become the World Champion, it will be sensational (I am not a huge fan of his – somehow I don’t fully trust him, well actually his dad – they are both “too” smooth for me) but he is a really good driver and in my book his championship worthy and not tainted as so many people have claimed were he to win. So my support is for Hamilton as 2007 driver’s champion and Raikkonen runner up.
*PS unlike the story about Fisichella not wanting his daughter to race Jacky Ickx’s daughter Vanina has raced in a variety of events including Paris-Dakar rally, Le Mans, and most recently in an Audi in the DTM series.
September 26th, 2007 at 13:12 #3 - Keith said:
Auto Motor und Sport eventually ran the story about the FIA leaking McLaren and Ferrari secrets:
auto-motor-und-sport.de/sport/formel…
September 26th, 2007 at 19:38 #4 - me said:
it’s all very odd. am going to listen out during the course of the weekend to see if FiveLive or ITV mention it.