Episode 68 - Later, But Better | Sidepodcast : Your Weekly F1 Podcast

Episode 68 - Later, But Better

File: episode68.m4a
Length: 48:14
Size: 44.3 MB
Transcript: Coming soon

A few days late, due to us both attending various days of the Silverstone test. Of course, that means this show is packed full of the gossip from the track.

Intro

Apologies for being slightly late, but there’s plenty to talk about.

Good Week / Bad Week

Good week for Raikkonen’s engine and BMW demonstrations, but a bad week for BMW and the FIA.

News and Views

We quickly run through the World Council findings at their Paris meeting last week, including the calendar, entry fees and Formula 2.

Plus, he was at testing for all three days, while I managed one, but I still have plenty to share with you (pictures included) from our day out, along with a live interview with a couple of Renault fans.

Feedback

Join the Facebook group if you haven’t already, we need 300 members by Sunday. All quiet aside from the emails, one of which is an inspirational song.

Linkage

Written on July 2nd, 2008 at 02:16 am by Christine.
Posted in Podcasts
Tags: Audio, F1, Formula One, Paddock, Podcast, Renault, Silverstone, Testing

What others have said...

103 Responses

July 2nd, 2008 at 2:24 amlou said:
yay, podcast! you can go to bed now wow nearly 50mins! Is this the longest podcast you have recorded? I’m not complaining though right i’m off to go listen to the podcast, my thoughts in the morning
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 amme said:
Is this the longest podcast you have recorded?

i think, but don’t quote me, that the silverstone gp ‘07 show is still the longest.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 amShashank SK said:
wasnt this podcast a little late?
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:51 amme said:
wasnt this podcast a little late?

yup, no kidding.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:25 amJourneyer said:
Nice podcast!

As for the shutter issue you guys discussed, this is partly an offshoot of F1 becoming a business. To these teams, time gained on the rest is money gained on the rest. They’re afraid that other teams get the jump on what they’re doing and get even faster, therefore their want for privacy.

Also, this is partly an offshoot of Stepneygate. That spying scandal showed how information can so easily go around in F1, which has made the teams even more paranoid about protecting their information.

Not the best viewpoint, true, but can you blame them?

You guys were lucky to get past those shutters! I guess the team are kinda picky of who they let in and who stays out. You’re trust-worthy. Hahaha!
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 amMattw said:
You had to go all the way to Silverstone to find out that live video drains your battery? That’s a dodgey excuse.

You should be fine keeping up to date with what is going on at the GP, with the big screens and the commentary over the radio (they still do that right?). You will probably follow the race better than we will.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 amme said:
Also, this is partly an offshoot of Stepneygate. That spying scandal showed how information can so easily go around in F1, which has made the teams even more paranoid about protecting their information.

i guess you’re right, but the way i see it is fif1 were testing more new components than anyone else and they had no problems opening up. now admittedly their new stuff is probably behind everybody else’s old stuff, but still.

also, eventually williams opened up after much unrest from the crowd, so what did they manage to hide exactly?

You had to go all the way to Silverstone to find out that live video drains your battery? That’s a dodgey excuse.

erm, yes. twas news to me

You should be fine keeping up to date with what is going on at the GP, with the big screens and the commentary over the radio (they still do that right?).

last year we couldn’t hear the commentary as the cars were passing. and kangaroo tv doesn’t work so well in the sun. we had to come home and watch the tv re-run to figure out what the heck went on.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:05 amMattw said:
last year we couldn’t hear the commentary as the cars were passing. and kangaroo tv doesn’t work so well in the sun. we had to come home and watch the tv re-run to figure out what the heck went on.

Ear defenders over the top of the ear phones helps a great deal (top tip there).
Although F1 engines cause a noise that reverberates through your skull and shakes the brain tissue.

Also, this is partly an offshoot of Stepneygate. That spying scandal showed how information can so easily go around in F1, which has made the teams even more paranoid about protecting their information.

The paranoia started along time before the spying scandal. I think the FIA should legislate that all team garages must be open
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 amme said:
The paranoia started along time before the spying scandal. I think the FIA should legislate that all team garages must be open

that’s a fine plan. they’re helping no-one at all with the current approach.

mind you fia will probably mandate that the doors must be at least 50% open in the first year, 75% the next, before full shutter openings will be required in 2011 (pending further consultation with the teams of course).
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 amSteven Roy said:
The paranoia goes back several decades before Stepney. When Lotus introduced ground effect underbody aerodynamics into F1 in the lat 70s they were obsessive about trying to hide it. In those days no-one thought of just locking the doors and shutting the fans out so everytime the car came in they had mechanics detailed to rush out and cover the gearbox. That way everyone was tricked into believing they had a really trick gearbox and so they didn’t notice or realise the importance of the tunnels under the car. You don’t need to lock the fans out to hide what the teams are doing. Especially now when so much of the technology is under the skin.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:37 amDank said:
How scary was that bridge over the pits straight?!! It was similar to the one at the end of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom! My poor other-half (who hates heights) almost had kittens when I pointed out to her that an integral part of it’s structure seemed to be gaffer tape!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:20 amScott Woodwiss said:
why does the podcast for me only load 3 seconds and then that’s it? :/
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 amdan brunell said:
Great show as always, I loved the perspective of the Renault bloggers, that team has gone up several notches in my book.

Couple of thoughts from the podcast:

- How much of GP2 does Bernie still owe? Might this whole Formula 2 thing just might be a little bit of dirt to throw in his eyes? I can’t think of any other reason to do it. It’s a completely stupid idea.

- In terms of KERS, are teams required to have it? Can they have the option of having a KERS-less car. The whole thing just seems like a waste of engineering time and additional weight on the car.

- I get the feeling more and more that the loss of the USGP was totally a Tony George doing. He may say he wants it back, but he is already doing pretty well now with the IRL, NASCAR, and MotoGP all coming to Indy the next several years. With or without the USGP, he is going to have a good year. Since there is not another track in the country that is even close enough to F1 ready and the fact that the manufactures/sponsors are not happy with the situation, he is in a position to dictate terms a little bit… we all know how much Bernie loves that. It is remarkable how quiet George has been this season about the loss of the GP and bringing it back.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:46 amme said:
My poor other-half (who hates heights) almost had kittens when I pointed out to her that an integral part of it’s structure seemed to be gaffer tape!

yeah, by day three i was going through the tunnel at copse!

I loved the perspective of the Renault bloggers, that team has gone up several notches in my book.

big thanks to both amc and fraggle. i’ve no idea if they’ve ever done any interviews before, but they were excellent throughout.

In terms of KERS, are teams required to have it? Can they have the option of having a KERS-less car.

nope, and i think we’re expecting that no teams will run it at the beginning of next season, and probably introduce it later in the year, but we’ll see.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 amme said:
why does the podcast for me only load 3 seconds and then that’s it? :/

all good here scott. have you tried in iTunes?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 amScott Woodwiss said:
i tried downloading it from here, and it won’t even play the file in iTunes, real player, windows media or quicktime. Help!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 amScott Woodwiss said:
ok, just downloading off iTunes. let’s see
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 amScott Woodwiss said:
yay that’s better!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 amdan brunell said:
In terms of KERS, are teams required to have it? Can they have the option of having a KERS-less car.

nope, and i think we’re expecting that no teams will run it at the beginning of next season, and probably introduce it later in the year, but we’ll see.

If there is a team that runs KERS at full capacity next year and gives them a distinct advantage over a car developed without KERS, I will be absolutely shocked.

Also, a random question relating to Top Gear. Does anyone else think when Jeremy points to the internet photo that they pan away from, could it be a still from Max’ previously private home movie collection? He is a big F1 fan after all and something like that is too good to pass up.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 amSteven Roy said:
I only found out last week that KERS is not compulsory and that Honda who are supposed to be on a green agenda have said that they may not bother with it. McLaren on the other hand are rumoured to be building two different cars for next season. On the circuits where KERS is beneficial they will run a KERS car and those where it is not beneficial they will run without.

Only Max could come up with something like KERS and then not make it compulsory. Hopefully none of the teams will bother with it and it will be consigned to the history books. Apart from anything else regardless what Max says it does not have a real world application. It only works if people drive fast and jump on the brakes at the last minute. It doesn’t matter how much energy is recovered from it if you have to drive in the most unenvironmentally way possible in the first place to get that benefit. Max really is an idiot. Every car on the planet loses a stack of energy through heat (engine / exhaust)which could be recovered. That would make a lot more sense than recovering brake energy. I guess that is the problem with the FIA being based in Paris. Max thinks everyone drives like Parisians.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 amScott Woodwiss said:
You know Formula 2 used to exist? It was around in the 60s and 70s, and the 80s I think, but they then scrapped it and changed to F3000, and then GP2.

So, theoretically, F2 should be the replacement for GP2, which doesn’t seem very logical because its only 4 years old, and if you’re changing it again then its just going to throw all the teams off.

While I wouldn’t mind seeing it again, I have to agree with one of the GP2 bosses, saying that the concept is absolute b******s (excuse me)
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 amScott Woodwiss said:
Also, a random question relating to Top Gear. Does anyone else think when Jeremy points to the internet photo that they pan away from, could it be a still from Max’ previously private home movie collection? He is a big F1 fan after all and something like that is too good to pass up.

HAHAHAHA! Knowing Jeremy, it probably is!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 amChristine said:
You know Formula 2 used to exist? It was around in the 60s and 70s, and the 80s I think, but they then scrapped it and changed to F3000, and then GP2.

Yup, and the curiosity is, if they scrapped it in the first place, there must have been a reason. Why do they think it will fare any better in the current climate?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 amme said:
yay that’s better!

for some reason, mediatemple (our site host) have issues with the download of large files. sadly nothing we say or do will convince them it’s their fault / problem, and we haven’t time to look elsewhere at the moment.

have uploaded the file to drop.io in case anyone else is having issues:

http://www.drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/episode68

additionally both the mp3 and the m4a can be downloaded from these alternate locations:

http://cdn.sidepodcast.com/weekly/episode68.mp3
http://cdn.sidepodcast.com/weekly/episode68.m4a

any more probs, just shout us.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pmSteven Roy said:
Yup, and the curiosity is, if they scrapped it in the first place, there must have been a reason. Why do they think it will fare any better in the current climate?

I don’t think the new formula two will share anything with the previous incarnation beyond the name. The previous formula two for most of its existence was a fabulous championship with great drivers, great cars and great racing. I seem to remember and I could be wrong that the main driving force behind the change to F3000 was to find a home for all the Cosworth DFVs when for reasons I never understood F1 switched from 3 to 3.5 litre engines. So they created a new formula and gave it 3 litre engines with a rev limit at 9000 rpm. F3000 was ill conceived and never came close to F2.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pmScott Woodwiss said:
now that i think about it, i’ll get those pics of the kimi mercedes i painted on forza motorsport 2 onto drop.io ASAP
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 pmScott Woodwiss said:
ok, they’re up. not brilliant pics, i know, but it does show off all sides of the car

hope you like it!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pmStuart Codling said:
There’s some evocative 1970/71 Formula 2 pics from Crystal Palace at:

http://f3history.co.uk/Racingpics/index.htm
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pmSteven Roy said:
Great pics Stuart. Great to see guys I have never heard of mixing it with genuine legends. I hope whoever wins the political nonsense finds a way to get F1 drivers into F2/GP2 on a regular basis. That would sort out a few egos.

And while we are at it they should bring back BMW Procars. What a great idea that was. Procars were BMW M1s (pic @ dropio) which ran like the current Porsche championship that supports F1 but the top six qualifiers for the F1 race were entered in the race. Before he bought McLaren Ron Dennis used to run som of the cars.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 pmSteven Roy said:
I apparently don’t have permission to edit my previous comment. Maybe because I have already edited it.

The pic at dropio is from http://www.bmwm1.com/
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:29 pmIan Lockwood said:
On the garage shutters - they are only allowed as testing is not governed by the F1 Sporting Regulations. Their use during a race weekend is banned:-

27.4 During the entire Event, no screen, cover or other obstruction which in any way obscures any part of a car will be allowed at any time in the paddock, garages, pit lane or grid, unless it is clear any such covers are needed solely for mechanical reasons, which could, for example, include protecting against fire.

In addition to the above the following are specifically not permitted :

- engine, gearbox or radiator covers whilst engines are being changed or moved around the garage ;
- covers over spare wings when they are on a stand in the pit lane not being used ;
- parts such as (but not limited to) spare floors, fuel rigs or tool trolleys may not be used as an
obstruction.

The following are permitted :

- covers which are placed over damaged cars or components ;
- a transparent tool tray, no more than 50mm deep, placed on top of the rear wing ;
- warming or heat retaining covers for the engine and gearbox on the grid ;
- a rear wing cover designed specifically to protect a mechanic starting the car from fire ;
- tyre heating blankets ;
- covers over the tyre manufacturer’s code numbers (not the FIA bar code numbers) ;
- a cover over the car in the parc ferme overnight ;
- a cover over the car in the pit lane or grid if it is raining.

Its a shame the teams can’t agree to etend the rule to testing though.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pmAlex Andronov said:
Coulthard back to McLaren, but he’s paying
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:45 pmme said:
I apparently don’t have permission to edit my previous comment. Maybe because I have already edited it.

timer may have run down. i think it’s set to 5mins.

ts a shame the teams can’t agree to etend the rule to testing though.

maybe it’s time the fia regulated testing too. i was against the idea until this week, but now i see teams have no means or incentive to regulate themselves. plus if the fia did oversee testing, tyre warmers could be banned too.

Coulthard back to McLaren, but he’s paying

along with newey and brundle. oh, that’s a classic

(not sure your link is working alex, but the story is here: http://tinyurl.com/6amxq2)
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 pmSteven Roy said:
And while we are at it they should bring back BMW Procars.

One for the Victor Meldrew - I don’t believe it collection. The are bringing back Procars at Hockenheim for on GP only. Unfortunately no current F1 drivers will participate.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/68753
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pmJourneyer said:
also, eventually williams opened up after much unrest from the crowd, so what did they manage to hide exactly?

I’m pretty sure they managed to hide the new parts.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:12 pmLe BOL said:
Salut! Le show stops for me after the first 22 minutes… I’m depressed…
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:16 pmme said:
Salut! Le show stops for me after the first 22 minutes… I’m depressed…

soz, le bol. have updated the links and player above to point to an alternate location. could you give the page a refresh and try again pls?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pmJoe said:
I was looking at Ted Kravitz’s answers in the latest Ask The Team Feature on the ITV site, and he gave an interesting answer to where Alonso could end up next year:

I have two questions to ask but they are linked: Which team would you like to see Fernando Alonso drive for next year and which team do you think he will end up driving for?

Amy Templeton
England

I’d like to see Alonso drive for Ferrari, but he’ll probably end up at Red Bull or Honda.

Red Bull would be a good choice due to having Adrian Newey primarily. Same for Honda having Ross Brawn. But Ferrari……Luca Di Montezemolo said at the end of the last season that he thought Alonso showed great sportsmanship in 2007 and that he admires him a lot……..the man’s crazy.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:21 pmSteven Roy said:
I finally got round to listening to the show.

How can you have promotion and relegation? If you are an F1 team you have to design and start to build next year’s car. So if you get relegated you have a car you can’t race. If you are an F2 team you have to design an F1 car on the off chance that you get promoted. Insane.

Good interview with the Renault people. Nice to hear someone doing an interview letting the guests speak and keeping it conversational rather than set piece questions.

It is actually really difficult to count laps when you are on a track. During my limited racing experience I always lost all track of the number of laps and sometimes I would get called in after 10 laps and think I had done 4 other times I had the impression that I had been forgotten about.

If you are looking for a way to cover all the drivers why not pick one at the start of each race weekend and chart his progress or otherwise through all sessions and the race. That way no-one can complain of unfair treatment.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:22 pmLe BOL said:
soz, le bol. have updated the links and player above to point to an alternate location. could you give the page a refresh and try again pls?

I’m listening to le show on le drop-your-weapon.yo-yo, what a beautiful website, it works. Bravo!

Dropped you my impersonation of Pink Floyd.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 pmme said:
Red Bull would be a good choice due to having Adrian Newey primarily. Same for Honda having Ross Brawn.

agreed on both counts. not sure i want to see alonso at ferrari myself.

If you are an F2 team you have to design an F1 car on the off chance that you get promoted. Insane.

good point. maybe the drivers could be relegated? or the team bosses…

If you are looking for a way to cover all the drivers why not pick one at the start of each race weekend and chart his progress or otherwise through all sessions and the race.

thing is, i think we’re pretty fair and balanced across the whole of the season, the problem is the monaco show was judged solely on it’s own merit.

for anyone new to sidepodcast, listening to that one episode left them with the impression we didn’t care about hamilton or webber.

so every show has to cover every driver.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:33 pmme said:
I’m listening to le show on le drop-your-weapon.yo-yo, what a beautiful website, it works. Bravo!

groovy

and nice piccy btw. same goes for scott, i didn’t get around to checking out the kimimerc until just then.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 pmSean said:
Re: Motorracetickets.com

I see yesterday Baz had issues with this company. I also have the same problem and no tickets have arrived. If nayone knows anything positive please reply, thanks, Sean
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 pmSean said:
Re: Motorracetickets.com

Tickets bought for Silverstone GP by the way! Their website went down 2 days ago. No-one wants to know, not UPS, not the bank, not Trading Standards, because the company was based in Spain. When I bought the tickets this company was ranked no.2 on Google and their website was very comprehensive. BEWARE.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pmMattw said:
I seem to remember and I could be wrong that the main driving force behind the change to F3000 was to find a home for all the Cosworth DFVs when for reasons I never understood F1 switched from 3 to 3.5 litre e

F3000 started in 1986 (maybe 85) - when F1 was still in there Turbo era - but there might have been a job lot of DFVs available that had been made uncompetitive in F1

I seem to remember that F2 had petered out, and F3000 was the revival.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:18 pmDank said:
Red Bull would be a good choice due to having Adrian Newey primarily. Same for Honda having Ross Brawn. But Ferrari……Luca Di Montezemolo said at the end of the last season that he thought Alonso showed great sportsmanship in 2007 and that he admires him a lot……..the man’s crazy.

I think that’s the first time anyone has said that they could see Alonso at Red Bull for 2009. There was some speculation last year that he would go to RBR, but that was at the same time Ross Brawn was supposedly en route to them as well.

Just wondering what Ted is basing this notion on really?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 pmme said:
When I bought the tickets this company was ranked no.2 on Google

that does give a little hope that the demise was just unfortunate timing. did anyone manage to get hold of silverstone regarding this?

There was some speculation last year that he would go to RBR, but that was at the same time Ross Brawn was supposedly en route to them as well.

i guess now that it’s almost as good as confirmed DC will be vacating his seat at the end of the year, there is room. but what of vettel?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 pmlou said:
Great pocast as always I loved the interview! Really added something to show. I also love the fact that you two have thought of everything regarding live commenting! Genius! erm everyone else has pretty much said what i was thinking… I have been doing lighting for a rock concert all day…. so i have only just grabbed a minute to come online… god i’m tired.
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 ammarin foulkes said:
ive lost my ticket for silverstone grand prix i have proof of puchase but they say they cannot help no ticket no entry they say any ideas please somebody help
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 ambaz said:
re: motorracetickets

sean,
sorry to hear it m8. i have some details on the guy who owns the site, and a number and a address. The phone goes to answer fone which isnt a suprise! The guys name is NIKLAS HELLORE and he lives in alicante. if you want his details then ill be happy to give them to you- or i can post it on here so that everyone can see. i lost 4 tickets and had to pay for hotel rooms which we’re not staying in now- livid!!! Ive not called silverstone yet, im too angry to hear them say we cannot help you. If you call them, let me know. baz
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 amJordan Alllen said:
Greetings Everyone!

I appear to be the bearer of bad news today as I have seemed to have typed both http://motorracetickets.com/ and shttp://motorracetickets.com/ on my computer and have received the following message:

Motor Race Tickets
Account Suspended due to Non-Payment.
Account Owner please contact the hosting provider ASAP.

I can only wonder if this address is the same site that the people purchasing their silverstone tickets went to. As they should have enough money from the “sale” of tickets to keep the site running I fear thst this recall bad news. Hopefully the EU has some sort of Better Business Bureau but good luck everyone….
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:09 amHelen said:
Re: motorracetickets

I too have been had by the above scamming bastards. 2 tickets for this weekend, can’t believe it. Any further info would be appreciated.

Cheers
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 amSean said:
Re: motorracetickets.com

Silverstone emailed me back yesterday confirming that other people have been in touch about the same problem. Although they could not say the company are crooks they did say that motorracetickets.com had not bought a block of tickets for the GP from Silverstone!

Trading Standards in the UK cannot help because the transaction was to Spain! They put me in touch with the EU Trading Standards (go to bottom of their page and click on link to Spanish Flag) This is where you go to complain but won’t get you very far I suspect! http://cec.consumo-inc.es/Secciones/Quienes/Quienes_en.asp

I’m gutted as I expect everyone else is. If you are reading this and have been stung please add your comments so that we can inform F1 about such scams. I feel F1 should monitor internet sites ranked so high as this company to ensure their supporters are not getting ripped off!

Sean
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 amme said:
Silverstone emailed me back yesterday confirming that other people have been in touch about the same problem. Although they could not say the company are crooks they did say that motorracetickets.com had not bought a block of tickets for the GP from Silverstone!

damn, that’s the worst possible scenario.

I’m gutted as I expect everyone else is. If you are reading this and have been stung please add your comments so that we can inform F1 about such scams.

please do, of course. cheers for the update sean.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 amStuart Codling said:
Silverstone emailed me back yesterday confirming that other people have been in touch about the same problem.

We’ve sldo had a flurry of calls to the office on this subject in recent days. It’s very distressing to hear that people have lost so much money – and that they won’t be able to go to the GP.

Unfortunately it’s very easy to set up a convincing-looking site if you have the design expertise. There’s also a science to bumping your site up the Google rankings.

Some credit card companies offer protection in such circumstances but others don’t. The only advice I can offer is that if something sounds too good to be true (ie tickets on offer for an event that’s already sold out) then it probably is.

If you don’t actually have a ticket then don’t turn up anyway, hoping to talk your way in. This may seem hard-hearted but there are all sorts of legal reasons (in terms of civil and criminal liabilities) for them to not let you in without one.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:32 amPaul Stapleton said:
Hi guys…

I’ve thught I had purchased 6 three day passes, and as you now know these haven’t turned up either!! I’ve contacted Silverstone too but I guess they are now being drowned in calls from people complaining. Completely gutted as potentially £1000 down the drain. I’ve already contacted my bank (HSBC) and they are sending me a claims form but they didn’t sound to hopeful. Certainly these websites need to be monitored by the FIA or necessary bodies as it just creates issues around the whole event.
Bring on ITV over the weekend then.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 amC Woods said:
Yeah, Me and my girlfriend have been done by the scamming cnut too, noticed the site go down yesterday. Think the credit card company will cover cost but its the loss of a good day out thats the real ball ache. looks like beer + sofa + ITV is the plan now!
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pmbaz said:
Here is all the info we have on file or have been able to uncover about the owner of MotorRaceTickets.com: he owes the web hosting company 4g. This info was given to me by the hosting company

I can tell you that the guy we dealt with was called Niklas Hellore.. and he owes us 4 grand!

So if you DO manage to contact him, tell him we’d like to speak with him!!

A ‘Whois’ on the Domain Name MotorRaceTickets.com gives this info:

AboutUs: motorracetickets.com

Registration Service Provided By: Binero AB

Contact: registry@binero.se

Visit: http://www.binero.se

Domain name: motorracetickets.com

Registrant Contact:

Niklas Hell?re

Box 280

Trollh?ttan, 46126

SE

administrative Contact:

Binero AB

Anders Aleborg (registry@binero.se)

+46.86240800

Fax: +46.851480140

Pipers vag 165

Solna, 11769

SE

Technical Contact:

Binero AB

Anders Aleborg (registry@binero.se)

+46.86240800

Fax: +46.851480140

Pipers vag 165

Solna, 11769

SE

Mobile Telephone Contact number for Niklas Hellore:

+34 672 222 532

Email Addresses used by Niklas Hellore:

info@MotorRaceTickets.com

motorracingnik@hotmail.co.uk

Contact Address:

Exec Products S.L.

Colina De La Zenia, Elite II

03189

Alicante

Spain

UPDATE-I HAVE SPOKEN TO TRADING STANDARDS, SPANISH CONSULATE AND MY BANKS- ALL UNWILLING TO HELP. SIDEPODCAST- HELP US
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pmScott Woodwiss said:
Completely gutted as potentially £1000 down the drain.

Damn, i’m sorry to hear that man. such a shame.

I’ve already contacted my bank (HSBC) and they are sending me a claims form but they didn’t sound to hopeful.

They’re a global bank, so I don’t see why it’s a problem. Why don’t they just contact their head office in Spain and get them to sort it out?
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pmScott Woodwiss said:
I can tell you that the guy we dealt with was called Niklas Hellore.. and he owes us 4 grand!

WHAT! That’s just stupid. You need to report this to BBC Watchdog or something.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 pmAlianora La Canta said:
The site in question appears to have only been set up in February this year. It’s difficult to get up so high in Google in only five months (Google uses longevity of the site as one of its criteria), but as Stuart says, there are large numbers of people who hold at least part of the secret to good search engine optimisation.

The other side effect of this is that the Wayback Machine won’t release anything on this site for at least another month, so those of us who never saw the site’s original layout will have to wait before seeing it (the height it reached in Google means there’s a good chance that a copy of the site will end up in the archive).

The site appears to be resident on a Swedish server Binero AB (the given address is for Solna, just north of capital city Stockholm). Trollhättan, a city in western Sweden, is also mentioned in connection with Niklas Hellöre. This explains why someone with a company registered in Spain would have a Swedish server.

http://www.MotorRaceTickets.com itself seems to have been produced by http://www.thewebshop.es . It still exists, but the blog where they talked about their latest site doesn’t exist any more and only appears in Yahoo!’s Spanish search cache facility (a screenshot of which now resides in the drop.io facility).

The best way to avoid scamming is to buy your tickets from the circuit site/phone number directly wherever possible, and to make sure you see the tickets (and check them for legitimacy where possible) before handing any money over if you must go elsewhere.

Also, PO Box numbers are a bad sign, especially without a phone number; all they tell you is that someone’s paid for a box - it is possible that the box never gets checked. Postal addresses connected to buildings generally get checked, assuming the building in question is occupied and the post office remembers to send it to the place marked on the envelope.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 pmme said:
looks like beer + sofa + ITV is the plan now!

Bring on ITV over the weekend then.

am glad to see you’re trying to make the best of it

UPDATE-I HAVE SPOKEN TO TRADING STANDARDS, SPANISH CONSULATE AND MY BANKS- ALL UNWILLING TO HELP. SIDEPODCAST- HELP US

baz, that’s terrible but i really don’t know what else we can do?
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pmme said:
The other side effect of this is that the Wayback Machine won’t release anything on this site for at least another month, so those of us who never saw the site’s original layout will have to wait before seeing it

google cache has it:

http://tinyurl.com/66v2ot

and there’s a screengrab in dropio.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:40 pmbaz said:
i know, just hoping someone would wave their magic wand and make everything better. The worst thing is not even losing the money- its not being able to go to silverstone this year. no im not rich, just really passionate, now im just depressed.
maybe all of us who were scammed shud meet up infront of a big screen???
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pmAlianora La Canta said:
Thanks, me. The design elements looked convincing, but the text isn’t formatted as you’d expect (there are lines of text ending halfway across the page). How much of that is the cache effect and how much the text-writers knowing less about professional typing than the designers of the main site is another question.

Unfortunately, Niklas’ contact details aren’t on there, so all there is at the moment is a PO Box number - and you can bet it hasn’t been checked since the site was closed for non-payment…
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 pmme said:
maybe all of us who were scammed shud meet up infront of a big screen?

that would be a very cool thing to do. something like a sports bar nearby might be a good plan.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 pmSteven Roy said:
You need to find a sports bar with lots of computers so that you can all join in live commenting. The British GP would be a good time to break Christine’s 1000 comments target.

I am going to miss Friday’s session as I will be in Manchester at BMW’s pitlane park thing.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pmbaz said:
we have a sports cafe in central london- but im guessing not everyone lives in london?
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:35 pmDannie said:
Bit of good news - my bank (Halifax) have said there should be no problem at all to recover the money. I send them a letter stating what happened with the confirmation email and they credit my account and they go and debit the receiving bank directly.
But Baz you’re right… it’s a lot more than just the money
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pmSean said:
I tried my bank Natwest and they told me they could not help. I’m not sure if they can debit the receiving bank (Sol Bank). 2 days ago I spoke to the branch in Spain where the money went from the UK and they said it had already been sent on somewhere else. Unless fraud has been committed where someone takes your money from your account without your knowledge they have told me it is tough luck and they are not prepared to help further. Has anyone else had a positve response from their bank? Cancel your cards by the way since apparently once someone has your details they can take more money and that is not fraud either!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:50 pmbaz said:
f1 round yours then, lol
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:58 pmbaz said:
sean,
tell your bank that halifax are sorting it out, and that they shud too. im going to call mine when my friend arrives who graduated in law. let me know
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:11 pmDannie said:
Halifax said they could not treat is as fraud but as “non receipt of goods” if that helps?? I had to go to the disputes department not the fraud department
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pmSean said:
very useful thanks Dannie………ohh UPS just drove by…NOT!. Sorry to hear everyone’s bad news - hope you all enjoy the GP where ever you end up. I’ve got to get on with work now so will probabaly get back to this after the event. Perhaps Sidepodcast can keep this thread going till we all sort out whether this can be resolved. Many thanks, Sean
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pmbaz said:
Great info dannie, at least now we can try and approach it from a different angle. cheers
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 pmme said:
Perhaps Sidepodcast can keep this thread going till we all sort out whether this can be resolved.

of course, no sweat.

i think if you search for “motorracetickets” in google at the moment, this thread is something like the third or forth entry, so hopefully if anyone has anything to add, they’ll gravitate here and share.

please do keep us up-to-date too, even if it takes some time to resolve. i know everybody here feels bad for those affected.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:53 pmDisgruntled PJ said:
I too have been scammed by this scumbag. I’ve got a copy of the contact page from Google’s cache which gives the following details:

Please write to:
Motor Race Tickets, Colina de la Zenia, Elite 11, La Zenia, Orihuela Costa, 03189 Alicante, Spain.
Telephone:
Please call (0034) 966761875.

Regarding refunds from banks, if you paid by credit card you should get your money back under under a consumer credit agreement. The card company are equally responsible for the goods apparently. If you used a debit card it’s not so clear cut. You should be ok if the card is run by visa as they operate a charge back system if the goods are not delivered.

Lloyds have said to me that they should be able to help once Sunday has passed and the tickets have not arrived.

Here’s hoping.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:04 pmSean said:
Sorry to hear that. Thanks for the info though. Hopefully we are all gradually building a useful profile of this individual. If anyone knows anymore details or even knows this person please post your info here so he can be pursued.
Many thanks.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:07 pmMathew said:
Hi,

I bought 2 tickets for the silverstoneGP from them. I am totally disappointed by the way i have been cheated.

I checked with Lloyds TSB they told me they cant help.

Disgruntled PJ: Can u help me on what basis you spoke to Lloyds. I used the Visa card to book my tickets as well. Please help me get my money back.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 pmwendy said:
If anyone banks with Lloyds Tsb and want more help and info re MotorRaceTickets.com after Sunday you can ring Lloyds Debit card disputes on 0845 300 6699 that’s if you have payed by debit card visa.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:13 amDisgruntled PJ said:
Mathew: Use the number that Wendy has posted above.

It seems that this chargeback system is not widely known but visa do operate it and you need to persevere with your bank. The official stance is that it depends on your bank’s T&C’s but from waht I’ve read Lloyds does seem to play ball though they won’t start proceedings until Sunday has passed.

Some reading:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchan#pay

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7347146.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/4260806.stm

lloyds also refunded there customers who had used debit cards in the Farepak issue.
July 5th, 2008 at 2:43 pmbaz said:
hi, anyone know anyway to get my money back from natwest? it is a maestro card, not a visa and they are not very helpful. i asked them about the ‘non receipt of goods’, but they still class it as fraud and they dont deal with that unlike visa. please help
July 6th, 2008 at 7:08 pmRuth said:
We too have been caught by this scam, and have spent the afternoon watching the race on ITV instead of being there. What a race to miss!

We paid for the tickets in early June (over £500) by a Nationwide VISA card, and they’ve sent us a dispute form to complete. Luckily we haven’t yet paid the VISA bill on which the transaction is shown, so it’ll go straight into “dispute” and we won’t actually have to part with any cash. Nationwide said they’d probably write the money off if they can’t get it back from the company. I hope they don’t - no-one should be able to get away with this.

We’ll be on the Silverstone website first thing tomorrow to book next year’s tickets at source.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:01 pmJordan Alllen said:
Some progress has been made. The link to the web site http://www.motorracetickets.net/ now displays the following message.

Motor Race Tickets
Account Suspended due to Non-Payment. Account Owner please contact the hosting provider ASAP. We have received several enquiries from concerned clients of MotorRaceTickets.com. However, neither the original Web Designers or the Web Hosts have ANY connection with MotorRaceTickets.com other than being contracted to design and host the website for them earlier this year, and we have no knowledge of the current whereabouts of the owners. All our attempts at communicating with them regarding outstanding invoices have been met with answerphone messages and unanswered emails. If you have concerns over any credit card transactions you have made with MotorRaceTickets.com I would suggest contacting your credit card company and asking for a refund where appropriate. All information held on file about the owners of MotorRaceTickets.com has been passed over to the Authorities. Thank you.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:41 amMarc L said:
Another one to add to the list - My wife purchased 2 weekend tickets. Nothing showed up earlier this week and we got the sickening ‘we have been done’ feeling. Site is down and I am now speaking to a contact a BBC Watchdog to help.

How is it fair that there is no return if you pay by debit card? and how is it so easy to Con us - its so easy to get away with.

Not Fair.
July 7th, 2008 at 4:47 pmme said:
though they won’t start proceedings until Sunday has passed.

anyone had any luck with this now that it’s monday morning?

We’ll be on the Silverstone website first thing tomorrow to book next year’s tickets at source.

good plan ruth, i likes your spirit. although it’s a shame for the legitimate resellers, who’ll probably lose out because of one bad operator.

I am now speaking to a contact a BBC Watchdog to help

pls yell if you get anywhere with this marc.
July 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pmScott Woodwiss said:
I am now speaking to a contact a BBC Watchdog to help

if anyone can get down to the bottom of a scam, Watchdog can!
July 7th, 2008 at 9:21 pmHarryG said:
Hi, Spoke with the hosting company today who were very helpful and said they had a fair bit of info on the guy at MotorRaceTickets.com, and that they had passed all the info over to the police in the UK. Not good news, but at least it may lead somewhere.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:11 amamc said:
hello there! Ok, I know it’s shameful to make my debut on this site on the podcast thread that I feature on…but it is not entirely intentional, I assure you!

Just wanted to say hi, and that after a lot of resistance, I have listened to the podcast (cheers for editing it well!) and it is simply ace (minus my strangled scottish accent I blame on the passing F1 cars!!).

It was great fun with you guys, and I think we of the ground-sitting sort have probably stamped an invisible claim on the floor of the Renault pitbox!

I’ll pop by more often to say hi, so speak to ya soon!
July 8th, 2008 at 1:12 amme said:
Just wanted to say hi, and that after a lot of resistance, I have listened to the podcast (cheers for editing it well!) and it is simply ace

hey ya amc. glad you liked it

I’ll pop by more often to say hi, so speak to ya soon!

please do, keep in touch and we’ll let you know future testing plans as and when we figure them all out.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:07 pmGrant Macdonald said:
I have also been stung by MotorRaceTickets.com . I purchased 4 tickets to the German Grand Prix. I realise now … having read the postings here that I have no chance of receiving the tickets. Thankfully I purchased on my credit card. I would love to know how this website was so “highly rated” by Google?
July 8th, 2008 at 1:18 pmStuart Codling said:
Grant, Google rankings are dead easy to fiddle if you know how. Try googling the name motorracetickets. By the time you get to the second page, you’ll find links to it on all sorts of utterly irrelevant websites. That’s how they fooled the ranking system.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:41 pmSean said:
Hi - all. Just thought I would check in and review the staus of motorracetickets.com. Baz I paid the same way as you and have had the same apathetic response from Natwest. Please let me know how you get on.

Last week I contacted The Spanish European Consumer Centre (CEC)as advised by the UK Trading Standards and have received this reply. I have responded and asked them to contact the Spanish Police and offered more details if required.

“Dear Sean,

I write you on behalf of the European Consumer Centre about your complaint against the company http://WWW.MOTORRACETICKETS.COM

The Spanish European Consumer Centre (CEC) is a public service organization for consumers who require information or assistance in connection with the acquisition of goods or the use of services in a country other than their own.

I can not find much information about the trader, what they offer in their website shows that it is going to be impossible to reach them by amicable mediation. I would recommend you to report this issue to the police and talk to your credit card company, although probably it will be too late.

If you have any doubt, please, do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards

Pablo Mosquera Escribano

Asesor de Consumo / Consumer Adviser

C/ Príncipe de Vergara nº 54

28006 Madrid (Spain)

Fax: +34 91 822 45 62″

I will keep my eye on any other posts here. Everyone should do the same otherwise we may all fail to obtain our money and this guy/s may be able to do this again!

All the best - Sean
July 8th, 2008 at 5:35 pmRichardR said:
Just to add to what HarryG has said, I too have spoken to the hosting company in Spain, very helpful, also victims. They have passed on all the information they have , including a good description to Avon & Somerset Police a PC Kate Adams
0044 (0)1823 363321
Kate.Adams@avonandsomerset.police.uk

Good luck everyone.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:43 pmPC 3939 Adams said:
Regarding motorracetickets.com
I note that my contact details have been published on this site. I would urge anyone who has tried to buy tickets from this website to contact their local police force and report the fraud to them. I have a few lines of enquiry but ultimately this matter will probably have to be investigated by the Spanish authorities. Please do pass my details onto the officer who is allocated to your case, but there is no point in contacting me direct as I have no new information to give you.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:40 pmEoin said:
MOTORRACETICKETS.COM have caused a lot of hassle and spoilt a good weekend at Silverstone for my brother, son and myself.My brother is on contract in UK from Australia and we flew from Ireland to take opportunity.I bought from above named con artist.
I just hope that some very ill person was not another victim who is now left hurt by this evil.
Police,please do not give up.
July 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pmEpisode 69 - What a Difference a Brawn Makes | Sidepodcast : Your Weekly F1 Podcast said:
[...] Motorracetickets.com discussion on Episode 68 thread [...]
July 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pmGrant Macdonald said:
I would like to point out that I have reported my loss to the following e-mail addresses (AND NOT RECEIVED A SINGLE RESPONSE) :

‘fraud.alert@met.police.uk’

‘wandsworth.police@met.police.uk’ (my local borough police)

Do the UK police force actually look at e-mails received? It is in the hands of my credit card company but I would like to highlight that using e-mail to notify the UK police doesn’t necessarily work.

I feel the same way as all other do … ie I would like to see the perpetrator brought to justice and something done to reduce the possibility of this happening to anyone in the future.

I also sent an electronic message to Google, via their website - that has gone unanswered aswell.
July 17th, 2008 at 7:59 pmAlianora La Canta said:
For messages of significance, written letters generally work better than e-mails (especially if you tell them you’re sending a copy to your MP and your MP is any good).
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:13 amwendy said:
Just like to say if anyone was scammed by Motor race tickets like I was, I advised anyone to contact Lloyds Debit card disputes on 0845 300 6699 that is if they payed with a Lloyds debit visa card.I had a simple form to fill in,and all I did
was send email comfirmations that I had kept, and if you have it written confirmation from Motor race tickets (by e mail)
when delivery was to be made,and I have just received full compensation of the money I had sent them ,which was £971.00
back in my account today,so thank you to Lloyds on this occasion you have done a good job.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pmDisgruntled PJ said:
Just to update you all, we too received a full refund from Lloyds under the Visa chargeback system.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:37 pmme said:
Just to update you all, we too received a full refund from Lloyds under the Visa chargeback system

thanks for the update disgruntled pj, that is indeed good news
July 28th, 2008 at 5:04 pmSteven Roy said:
I am certain it doesn’t make up for missing the race but it is good to know these systems work.

Sidepodcast

Your Weekly F1 Podcast