F1 People - Murray Walker
- Length: 4:24
- Size: 4.1 MB
- File: people10.mp3
- Transcript: people10.pdf
- Torrent: people10.torrent
Welcome to F1 People, a mini series of short shows chronicling the lives of important people in the world of Formula 1. Today we’re going to look at Murray Walker, not a traditional F1 People subject, but an important one nonetheless.
Graeme Murray Walker was born on the 10th October 1923 in Birmingham, England. His father raced motorcycles professionally before the war, and was pretty good at it. Murray’s father also became a commentator for the BBC, working with them for 31 years. Walker decided to follow in his father’s footsteps, trying out the motorcycling route but realising he was never going to be as good as he wanted to be. At a particular race in 1949, his father was preparing to do the commentary, but had to step down at the last minute. Walker stepped in, and was overheard by a BBC producer in the crowd. He was invited for a commentating audition ahead of a Goodwood meeting, and got the job instantly.
Walker also took over his father’s role as motorcycle commentating when he died in 1962.
Whilst commentating on the race weekends here and there, Walker made ends meet by starting a career in marketing. His creative flair saw him promoted through an advertising agency, and this double life suited him. He worked on occasional F1 commentaries until the late 1970s, and in 1978 he was given the job full time.
In 1980, Walker was teamed up with James Hunt, who had recently retired from Formula 1. Initially, the pairing was awkward, with Hunt being somewhat of a playboy and Walker perhaps slightly disapproving of that. But as the years went by, they became an incredible partnership, the first to really bond a commentator’s art of conversation with a driver’s expertise of the sport.
Walker retired from the advertising industry in 1982, making commentating his full time concern. He began to get a name for himself as having the “commentators curse”. He would discuss the action out on track and often say how well a certain driver was doing, and then moments later, the driver would crash or suffer a mechanical failure and have to retire. It became such a common theme that some drivers actually asked Walker specifically not to mention them during a race, so their luck would hold out.
James Hunt died in 1993, but Walker continued to commentate. The next year saw the death of Ayrton Senna, an event which Walker himself describes as the blackest moment of his career. He found it very tough to talk about the accident during the race, as he didn’t know the outcome, and the pressure of having so many fans awaiting news was incredible. However, Walker got through these and other similar tricky events with aplomb and was therefore top of the list when ITV won the rights to F1 coverage in 1997. He and all the fans switched channels with ease, and Walker was teamed up with the newly retired Martin Brundle. This pairing mimicked the James Hunt success with Brundle providing the insight.
Murray Walker retired from F1 commentating in 2001, at the United States Grand Prix. He was presented with an original brick from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in recognition of his work. This is a rare honour and something Walker treasures to this very day. Despite his retirement, Walker remained a public figure within motor racing. He became the voice of the Grand Prix Masters series in 2006, he commentated on Supercar races, and filled in for a couple of F1 commentators when they weren’t available – in both the UK and Australia. In 2006, Honda signed Walker up as their team ambassador for half of the season, meaning he was a corporate front for the team, welcoming and entertaining VIP guests.
When the announcement came this year that the BBC had won the rights to F1 back from ITV, Murray Walker was the first name that sprung to everyone’s lips when talking about who would fill the commentators role. He’s done plenty of work for Radio 5live since retiring and commentated on the odd race. Whilst Walker said he doesn’t want to return and do a full season, he would be more than happy to do the odd Formula 1 feature.
Walker has been married to the very private Elizabeth for almost 50 years, and himself turns 85 this year. Whilst admitting that he is slowing things down gradually, he’s also very open about the fact that he loves the limelight and the attention.
Finally, if there’s any doubt that Murray Walker is a legend in F1, you just need to know this. When the upcoming Hollywood film about Michael Schumacher was announced, there were rumours that Murray would be played by Bruce Willis. You don’t get a better compliment than that.
That’s all for today’s episode of F1 People. I hope you enjoyed the show and will join me again tomorrow when we look at another VIP in the world of Formula 1.
Theme music: Natives of the New Dawn, People.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:13 pmThe artist formerly known as Dan Brunell said:
I have to ask; what is that intro song?
Great series.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pmChristine said:
It’s called People, by Natives of the New Dawn. Apologies, should credit them.
Myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/nativesofthenewdawn
Do you like it? I loved it during the first series, but I’m not so sure now.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:25 pmme said:
we already do:
http://www.sidepodcast.com/about/music/
July 24th, 2008 at 8:26 pmChristine said:
Yea, not so much for them but for inquiring minds
July 24th, 2008 at 9:22 pmlou said:
I haven’t been able to say before, but this mini series is brilliant!
I know a bit about the important people in f1 but not in this much detail and it’s fascinating. Great job, can’t wait for tomorrow’s episode 
July 24th, 2008 at 9:29 pmRyan said:
This mini series is spectacular. I was a big fan its first go round and i’m really happy you guys decided to further expand on it.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:46 pmSteven Roy said:
Definitely my favourite so far and Murray definitely deserves to be included.
I like the intro music.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:48 pmlou said:
me too.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:10 pmDom said:
Would like to hear Murray read this out himself. There are lots of things I’d like to hear Murray read out, actually.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:28 pmDan Brunell (don\'t use psuedonyms; that\'s all me) said:
An old editor of mine said once that the mark of a good broadcaster is if you would pay to listen to them read out the alphabet.
I am suprised to see no one has picked him up to do voice-over work and make Murray Walker ringtone (BBC and ITV wouldn’t give up the rights probably.)
July 24th, 2008 at 10:59 pmDom said:
Somebody has to make a Murray Walker satnav. Mind you, that would be very confusing. You’d have to have a Brundle satnav next to it to correct the directions.
July 24th, 2008 at 11:01 pmlou said:
hehe
July 24th, 2008 at 11:53 pmScott Woodwiss said:
Murray Walker is indeed an absolute legend
But has anyone ever wondered how he would fair as a commentator for a different sport - say, snooker?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-oAsDCGNA
July 25th, 2008 at 12:10 amlou said:
ahaha pure brilliance!!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:42 amSteven Roy said:
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=5ONBIJSL
I found this on Clive’s blog. It is the full German GP with the commentary in Portugese. I think this is the Brazilian coverage.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:47 amDan Brunell said:
I think I got myself in trouble because I laugh so hard my boss came into my office to ask if everything is OK.
How great would it to have Murray doing commentary of your life for one day from waking up to going to sleep. Deciding what to have for breakfast would might cause him to have a coronary.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:53 amSteven Roy said:
If you have pizza for breakfast I know what the commentary would be like. The first one is the short version of the ad. I can’t find the long version. The second is outakes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Q_9VYU9FE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nafnclzeOYo
July 25th, 2008 at 11:19 amLe BOL said:
The man’s a legend. I was born in the wrong country with wrong TV presenters, sort of; so I can only watch a bit of this and that on youtube from time to time to get a picture of what commentating was like in the UK in those days, needless to say I’ve no idea what it’s like today. I watch German channels but they did a lovely thing during British GP on Sunday: they let their viewers listen to ITV commentators screaming on the last lap which was quite impressive compared to German “slow” dudes Christian Danner and H. Wasser or something like that.
Anyway, I go away for a while and Honda add cast-iron anvil dorsal shark fin engine cover to their “Japanese warrior from the middle ages” car, McLaren grow a couple of wings and I hear Ferrari will shock the world with their version of bronze anvil. Cool.
I was reading this article on KERS from Mark Hughes and he says: “Initially, the regulations limit the power of the KERS systems to 60kw (around 80 horsepower) and the storage capacity of the energy is 400kJ (kilojoules) per lap. What in effect this means is an extra 80 horsepower available for 6.7s per lap. The current plan is that the power and storage capacity of the devices will be progressively increased over coming seasons, with a jump to 100kw and 800kJ of storage in 2011 and then 200kw and 1,600kJ in 2013 taken from both axles rather than just the rear axle, as configured until then.”
And suddenly it occured to me that if you can use KERS in qualifying (extra 80 horsepower available for 6.7s per lap) then you can achieve some serious times if the thing doesn’t explode, so if let’s say Williams gets this concept right and some other teams decide to delay the introduction of CURSE then how’s it gonna be, aye?
And the FIA decided to start “random” engine checks with Hamilton’s unit from Hockenheim. Kinda weird for “random” check, why not start with a Ferrari engine from Fisichella’s car? After all there are 6 of them racing in F1 right now (engines, not Fisichella clones).
July 25th, 2008 at 11:31 amLe BOL said:
And a cool Piquet quote in the lines of Murray: “I had a difficult beginning to the season and it was difficult not knowing the tracks – not knowing which way to turn Australia – but I don’t know what I could have done to make that any easier.”
“I would say Magny-Cours (the race I would most like to see dropped from the calendar) but I think we need to have Magny-Cours for our team.”
July 25th, 2008 at 12:33 pmChristine said:
Crikey, imagine a race with six Fisichella’s!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pmAlianora La Canta said:
Kinda weird for “random” check, why not start with a Ferrari engine {Le BOL - 3 comments ago}
Because they’ve only just got the checks working. It has to be an engine that’s done only one race (excluding Raikkonen, Bourdais and four other drivers) and the engine has to have finished the race (excluding three drivers, none with Ferrari engines). So the selection has to be from 13 drivers. While the chances of McLaren being picked were unlikely, it was entirely possible. However, I would expect all other manufacturers to have theirs tested. And incidentally if they choose a customer engine for any team, I will smell a rat (since the works team could act with impunity without being checked).
Crikey, imagine a race with six Fisichella’s! {Christine - previous comment}
I’d be very happy (being a Fisi fan), but rather confused trying to keep track of things.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:16 pmSteven Roy said:
There were a couple of Brazilian brothers in F3000 three or four years ago called Sperafico and they had three or four cousins all racing at quite a high level. They all seemed to have disappeared off the radar now but at one time it looked like several of them could make it to F1. For some reason a number of them had the first initial R so you could have had four or five R Speraficos on the grid.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pmz-baumgartner said:
http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/0u3xyps0rxdb400pjt9ts0cu7loh-450
Ferrari Shark Fin!!
July 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pmme said:
anyone else surprised how long it took ‘em? i assumed they had no intention of running one.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pmz-baumgartner said:
Definitely.
So what do you think>
July 25th, 2008 at 3:31 pmme said:
umm, about the wing, or the fact they’ve taken so long to implement it?
of the first: the pic’s quite small, so difficult to make any judgement beyond the fact there’s a large sail on the back of it.
of the second: i think i further proves just what a genius newey is. shame he doesn’t yet have the team around him to capitalise on his talents. and a shame that there’s a renault engine in the boot of his car.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:49 pmJordan Allen said:
Ten comments ago.
“…And Hill finishes second again!” Poor Damon, it appears that JV or Schuie was at the same Pizza Hut….
July 25th, 2008 at 3:52 pmChristine said:
Mmmm, pizza.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:58 pmJordan Allen said:
I do not, back when I was a Fisi fan (In his Jordan and Renault days) Having him DNF once during a race was painful.
Having Fisi DNF SIX times a race would be absolutly gut-wrenching. Do you think you can handle that Ali?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:08 pmScott Woodwiss said:
I literally got my e-mail for the “You Ask the Comments” feature for F1 Racing 15 mins ago, and I made sure I sent my question in right away. This time we get to ask….. Rubens!
I sent in something along the lines of:
If you had chosen to stay at Ferrari instead of going to Honda, do you think you would have had more success than you had already achieved in your time with them, given their recent resurgance from 2005?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:10 pmScott Woodwiss said:
well, look at it this way - at least their’s doesn’t keep blowing up all the time, unlike the factory cars
July 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pmme said:
remind me… which car was it we saw with smoke pouring out of the right bank in germany?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pmSteven Roy said:
If that doesn’t work Scott try asking a controversial question like did Rubens think Schumacher bottled out of having Kimi as his team mate or can Rubens tell us how Nick Fry has managed to keep his job this long when he is quite clearly useless or what are the odds on Honda producing three complete dogs in a row or what do the mechanics call the green trousers when the management are not around? It is an absolute certainty that the mechanics have their own description of the teams colour scheme.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:29 pmme said:
ooh, good question.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:34 pmScott Woodwiss said:
who’s car kept blowing up at silverstone and the hockenheim test?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:35 pmScott Woodwiss said:
I’ll send those in as “backups” so that either way, there’s one to pick
Besides, doesn’t say anything about limiting the number of times you submit questions 
July 25th, 2008 at 4:35 pmme said:
when i was there:
- piquet
- webber
- piquet
- alonso
- dc
July 25th, 2008 at 4:41 pmScott Woodwiss said:
there you go, proves renault’s engine is less reliable than the unit they give to Reb Bull
July 25th, 2008 at 4:45 pmScott Woodwiss said:
bigger picture of ferrari’s shark fin is now in drop.io
July 25th, 2008 at 4:47 pmme said:
doesn’t that depend on the number of laps each team put in, the type of runs they were on, etc?
the renault engine mechanic at s’stone was adamant both teams use identical units. with all due respect, i’m inclined to believe him over your less-than-scientific conclusions.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:47 pmScott Woodwiss said:
First it was McLaren with the bridge wing that set the trend, then red bull with the shark fin and now it’s BMW’s nose horns! McLaren have been trying some out on their car
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69429
July 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pmJordan Allen said:
Scott, I hope Barrichello sends you back a letter telling you in no uncertain terms where to shove it. Barrichello joined Honda because he was sick and tired of playing 2nd fiddle to Michael Schumacher and wanted to win a driver’s championship for himself. There was no way in hell that was going to happen at Ferrari with a heathly Schuie. Barrichello’s stupid mistake is that he did not leave the team after Austria 2002 when it was clear that Ferrari was quite happy in destorying Barrichello’s wins to fix a race in favour of Schumacher.
If anything, Barrichello should have breached his contract with Ferrari in 2003, try to find a drive with any other team, or raced elsewhere. Barrichello would never have found real success in Ferrari.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pmSteven Roy said:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20607.html
Just when you thought it was all over Max is going to sue NOTW and other publications for libel. For someone who is embarrassed as he claims to be it seems odd to want to prolong it.
The article also points out both Max and woman E deleted e-mails relating to this matter so no-one can prove whether he asked for a Nazi theme or not. You would have thought Max would have more sense than use e-mails if he was worried about keeping his secret.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pmScott Woodwiss said:
on the contrary, which team has had more engine failures this season - Renault or Red Bull? One thing you have to consider is how well and efficiently either team can use their engines without them expiring. From what I can recall, Red Bull have had less than Renault, but I will look into it. What that says to me is that the RB4 is more sympathetic towards its engine than the R27. Otherwise, RBR would have had just as many failures as Renault.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pmScott Woodwiss said:
now come on, there was no need for a response like that, Jordan.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pmme said:
hell, i’m impressed he knows what email is.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pmSteven Roy said:
I think he found out during the McLaren case last year. He does remind you of one of those old judges who constantly have to ask what anything that is less than thirty years old is.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:08 pmDan Brunell said:
Does anyone know the details of Red Bull’s engine deal? I can imagine them trying to switch engine suppliers. (remember back in the days when that was actually a big deal, oh the days before the “Company Teams”…)
Who would they take though…
Honda? ahh pass
Toyota? Maybe, however Williams might frown upon that.
BMW. More likely. I forgot when but they did say they were interested in becoming an engine supplier to another team.
Ferrari. Almost half the field on the same engine… god no.
Mercedes. Interesting….
So I pose the question… If not Renault power for Red Bull, then who?
July 25th, 2008 at 5:09 pmJordan Allen said:
Well, Scott. In 1997 I was a fan of Rubens. I wanted him to win races and race Championships. Now he is on my Virtual race team because I expect Kubica and Heidfeld to win, I expect Trulli and Glock to pick up points finishes and I expect Barrichello to complete the race and get me the one point per lap bonus just so that I can catch to teams with only four drivers. His many years of racing for 2nd place at ferrari destroyed my faith in the guy to the point where I think he is just in F1 to add to his record of most races started, and to bump up his pension. Ferrari destoryed him as a true racer and destoryed my faith in him as a racer.
Imagine what the team orders think of him.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:23 pmSteven Roy said:
Conspiracy theory time.
Based on the principle that the best place to hide something is in plain site DC, Christian Horner and Adrian Newey recently spent some time at the McLaren Technology Centre. Now was because DC bid on the visit in an auction but what better way to avoid being spotted in some clandestine meeting than to drive up to the front door and have your photo plastered all over the place.
Of course Mateschitz is trying to offload STR which would mean Red Bull would have no relationship with Ferrari beyond the drivers’ personal deals which is something that would make them more appealing to McLaren.
OK I am convinced that very soon there will be an announcement that Red Bull will have Mercedes engines and McLaren’s complementary technology. A Mercedes engine in an Adrian Newey car. I think I have seen that somewhere else before.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:57 pmme said:
after the nasty things ron said about the red bulletin?
July 25th, 2008 at 6:37 pmMattw said:
It’s a bit more Honda dumbo tham BMW horns. ugly things - Ban then now (and those horrible anvil engine covers)
July 25th, 2008 at 8:06 pmlou said:
I pionted those out yesterday… I posted a photo in drop.io too…
July 25th, 2008 at 8:37 pmAlianora La Canta said:
There were a couple of Brazilian brothers in F3000 three or four years ago called Sperafico and they had three or four cousins all racing at quite a high level. {Steven Roy - 32 posts ago}
Just to make it even worse for easily-confused people, Ricardo and Rodrigo Sperafico, both racing in F3000 in 2002 and both poised to make it into F1 (and then not) were twins who looked almost identical…
anyone else surprised how long it took ‘em? i assumed they had no intention of running one. {me - 30 posts ago}
So did I!
Having Fisi DNF SIX times a race would be absolutly gut-wrenching. Do you think you can handle that Ali? {Jordan Allen - 22 comments ago}
Firstly, dry-weather 2008-spec F1 rarely producing that many DNFs in the first place. Secondly, I’m used to supporting multiple drivers alongside Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India simultaneously. For instance, in the Australian Grand Prix, both Force Indias, Coulthard, Davidson and Button all went out, and my enjoyment of Hamilton’s victory was totally ruined by ITV’s reaction to it. While I’ve never had six of those I support DNF the same race, I have had one this season (Canada) where they’ve all had a bad one by their usual standards, and seeing a six-way DNF probably wouldn’t be that much more painful.
Generally, it’s the ridiculous DNFs that get me worked up rather than the idea of DNFing in the first place.
I literally got my e-mail for the “You Ask the Comments” feature for F1 Racing 15 mins ago, and I made sure I sent my question in right away. {Steve Woodwiss - 21 comments ago}
I’m stuck as to what to ask him. But it wouldn’t be fair anyway for a question of mine to be picked over yours, so maybe I should just keep my nose out of it to avoid any risk.
You would have thought Max would have more sense than use e-mails if he was worried about keeping his secret. {Steven Roy - 11 comments ago}
Especially since the UK and France oblige internet service providers to keep records of all e-mail correspondence in case of criminal activity. It may have originally been used for anti-terrorism, but the laws connected to e-mail usage by the authorities have been used for much more minor crimes - including ones less minor than the libel this court is about to discuss.
Also, if the whole thing backfires on Max and it turns out a Nazi theme was requested, does that allow the News of the World to appeal the privacy case it’s just lost due to compelling new evidence? And Max to sue on Trades Description law if the hookers did not deliver the promised theme? Or the courts to sue the women for perjury if it was delivered? The mind boggles…
Does anyone know the details of Red Bull’s engine deal? {Dan Brunell - 6 comments ago}
No I don’t. Mind you, Adrian Newey does tend to prefer unreliable but swift solutions - and Renault’s engine is swift. The only other possibility is that the Red Bull management decide Ferrari is better and switch round the supply with Toro Rosso again - but I don’t know what the contractual situation is about that.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:12 pmAlianora La Canta said:
By the way, the TARDIS that RSPCRF1 lost last week has been traced to a local library. Thief remains unidentified.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:41 pmRich said:
Not likely given that Adrian Newey was the original Macca genius and was poached. But as Macca and Ferrari have made up on their differences - it could happen.
Personally I think Red Bull should try for a BMW engine, quite reliable.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:59 pmScott Woodwiss said:
i did notice in that drop.io picture of the BMW that the sidepods were looking a bit old-school
That I like 
July 25th, 2008 at 10:34 pmme said:
correspondence, yes. contents of said correspondence, no.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:08 amAlianora La Canta said:
correspondence, yes. contents of said correspondence, no. {me - previous comment}
Sorry me, but they do have to keep the contents of the correspondence as well. The definition of “communications data” in the RIPA (in the UK) expressly states that if the service provider has any information pertaining to the provision of the service, then they must reveal it. In e-mail, unlike in postal services, this would necessarily include the content of the message, otherwise the message could not be communicated. Since everything pertaining to a wide variety of things (including crime of all kinds) could be called up, an ISP which wishes to stay on the right side of the law would have to record the content of the e-mails it receives.
The French equivalent law is more restrictive on what kinds of data can be subject to a criminal enquiry, but technical data, statistical data, start and end points, duration and date can be recorded. So Max’s own computer won’t be investigable (assuming he was using either work computers or public computers near work; he could also have done the e-mailing from home or elsewhere, which would complicate the law further).
However, the other end can be investigated under UK law, since a UK ISP will have been responsible for handling the prostitutes’ traffic. Since all of Max’s e-mail pertaining to this matter will therefore have gone through said UK ISP, there will be a record of the content on that ISP - and the courts could oblige that content to be revealed to the investigating authorities.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:20 amme said:
not true. for no other reason than storing that much data, long term, would be physically impossible for isp’s. the cost of hardware alone would be more than they could ever hope to recover.
all that’s required (and this is the same or mobile operators too, see the nigel stepney files as an example), is the fact that communication took place, who it was between and when it happened.
you’re making way to many assumptions here. firstly, you now have 3g mobile operators in the mix (we have x2 isp’s at any given time and both can send / receive email), not to mention internet cafe’s and such which complicates matter’s further.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:34 amAlianora La Canta said:
not true. for no other reason than storing that much data would be physically impossible for isp’s. the cost of hardware alone would be more than they could ever hope to recover. {me - previous post}
That’s not what the law itself says (at least not in the UK). Apparently, Max Mosley is not the only one who asks the impossible of those who live under his rule.
The Stepney files were recorded under Italian law in the first instance, which may not be as far-reaching as the UK law (bearing in mind the French law isn’t as far-reaching either). The authorities can’t hand over something to the UK which they did not have in the first place. If they could say to Stepney and his Italian-based associates “Could you please repeat the exact words of the conversation you had x months ago?” I’m sure their court cases would finish a lot quicker. The UK authorities chose not to invoke RIPA at all in that case, so the Coughlan end never got revealed by them.
firstly, you now have 3g mobile operators in the mix, we have x2 isp’s at any given time and both can send / receive email, not to mention internet cafe’s and such which complicates matter’s further. {me - previous comment}
All e-mail has to go through an ISP. This is a basic fact of how the internet works. The ISP may be hidden behind a host of other functions, but it’s always there. All 3G phones originally sold in the UK with a SIM card have a UK ISP - including the ones where the company itself is based in another country entirely. This is due to the 3G auction in 2004 that decided who would be allowed to sell 3G capability in the UK.
If they’ve used a library, they definitely used a UK ISP - either the standard one that all public library computers are connected to, or whichever ISP was chosen by the organisation providing the library. UK Internet cafés would have little reason not to use an ISP from the same country, though it is theoretically possible. However, it is extremely unlikely that the prostitutes would have made this an overriding criterion when picking their communication spot. Multiple ISPs changes only the length of time needed to search the records, unless one of them happens not to be UK-based.
Unless for some reason the prostitutes were using a non-UK ISP for their end of the conversation, their e-mail would have to have gone through an ISP bound by RIPA.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:44 amme said:
can you show me what the law says?
from my understanding, the uk communications data bill has yet to come into force, and when it does it will only require the retention of the following:
“…communications data – access logs but not content – for 12 months.”
if i walk into a web cafe and pay £1 for an hours usage, they don’t ask any questions. unless you know which cafe i walked into and on what day, how the hell are you going to track what i wrote or looked at?
same goes for max and his friends.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:53 pmAlianora La Canta said:
I linked to the RIPA (the law in question) in my original post. It came into force in 2000 - the UK Communications Data Bill is primarily an extension of that law.
if i walk into a web cafe and pay £1 for an hours usage, they don’t ask any questions. {me - previous post}
It would, if it was meeting its legal responsibilities, ask you to check the terms and conditions, even if it was just clicking “I Agree” on a window with the terms and conditions on before starting. These would include a statement in the small print permitting the recording of your activities for legal purposes. While the café itself would only keep the bare minimum of records, there would be enough to allow the police to link it to the relevant ISP records for that particular café.
The ISP records the information going through its system onto its archival network in order to comply with the regulations. It will have given the web café a MAC code (or got one from the café’s previous ISP) - the same as everyone gets when they start buying internet access - which pins it down to one café. Then the café’s own network records will say which computer was used. The ISP’s records give the day, time and nature of the communication, and the café is supposed to keep a record of who used what computer when (though in practise the owners may be relying on facial recognition - a legally questionable method to wholly rely upon). The café doesn’t ask questions because it doesn’t need to - all it needs to record is who used what computer.
In fact, we are discussing e-mail, so in the extremely likely event that the individual typed in their password and username to access their e-mail address, they’d be able to find out which internet identity accessed the computer at that time using the ISP records. This is one of the effects of part c) of the RIPA’s definition of data communications being so vague. It would take one information disclosure request by a court to the e-mail provider to yield the name and address of the e-mail account holder, along with numerous other items of information that may or may not be useful in the case. That would verify who was using the internet at that time and on that computer unless the e-mail account holder had lied about themselves - which is technically illegal.
The library I work at has to keep certain records as well (and get agreement from the user) - it’s a requirement of all computers intended for access by the general public. Most of us librarians don’t like it, but it’s better than the American situation where librarians are not allowed to tell off police officers who crane their necks over computer users’ shoulders to monitor people’s usage on a casual patrol. A lot of librarians are quite unhappy with RIPA and would like it to not exist, but the UK government doesn’t appear to listen to us or other elements of the civil rights campaign group.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:28 pmme said:
sorry, should’ve been more clear.
can you show me what the law says? as in, can you quote me the line that specifically says “the content of the email must also be recorded”.
every piece of information i can find about this suggests that the following must be kept:
or something along those lines. the content of emails must be kept, but only for a period of 48 hours, not 12 months.
that’s never happened to me in over a decade of net cafe usage. and in the years pre-3G, i frequently those places a lot.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pmAlianora La Canta said:
The definition of “data communications” within RIPA states the following:
Paragraph c) is so vague that the content is incorporated within there. Depending on interpretation, paragraph b) ii) could also be regarded that way, but paragraph c) makes it superfluous in the current context.
I had believed the two-year rule was in the RIPA itself, but that just obliges anyone subject to it to provide all the information they have relating to matters within the RIPA’s remit (the remit is given in Article 22 Paragraph 2, and the requirement itself is given in Article 22, Paragraph 4).
The requirement that all ISPs (and all other communications providers) to hold all information they have in case of legal proceedings is the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, Article 105, Paragraph 2. This states that the requirements to hold data lapse after two years unless the State orders that specific data be kept for longer (in which case there would be a two-year extension each time). The data in question is defined in the same way as the RIPA. This was a code of practise, but as of 15 March 2006, this is now part of EU law 2006/24/EC (opens as PDF).
The Anti-terrorism and Crime Act, and its EU support overrides the other laws currently on the books in the UK. However, the 48-hour rule does apply to uses other than within the aforementioned laws and commercial law (e.g. billing and other mostly common-sense things).
The one time I’ve used an internet café (April last year), the proprietor marked down who I was and what computer I’d used. It was a grid layout with time bands down the side, so it could have given the approximate time of usage (to the nearest 15 minutes, which was pretty precise since 15 minutes was the smallest billing unit). She didn’t ask for evidence to confirm my name, but then the law doesn’t require her to confirm the information for that purpose. If I’d lied about my name, then that would have been my responsibility and the police would have relied on tracking alibis.
It’s also possible that the cafés me used might have had its own server programme to log this information. Basic network management software would tell the authorities that the system was used at a given time by an individual using certain programs, files and URLs. Automated personal identification would require a keylogger of some sort (and the user to type something that identified them directly or otherwise), which the café may have eschewed in favour of facial recognition.